Another great link stolen from lies.com:
Quick summary: Bush said he was invading because he “knew” there were massive weapons in Iraq threatening the U.S. and the world. Nothing was said about “liberating” Iraq, and in fact Bush expressly rejected “nation-building” in the 2000 campaign. If the weapons were destroyed or moved before the war, as the administration now alleges, why invade if the threat was gone? What proof is there that the weapons were destroyed?
I know I keep harping on this. But the only defense against The Big Lie is reminding ourselves, over and over, that it is one.
UPDATE: More of my ramblings on this subject on lies.com.
Moot, give it up. It’s whining. And pathetic whining too. Like complaining after a few beers at the bar you really were safe at second in the softball game earlier.
Is it a bad thing Saddam is gone? Does it matter why or what pretext they went in? If they honestly thought there were WMD (and they did) does that change that there were not?
It used to be an entertaining whininess, now it is an annoying whiny bias (though it was always a bias).
Yes, it does matter Mosey.
When is enough enough? How long do you expect everyone to look the other way?
If someone were harming you, like robbing you or beating you, would you want me to look the other way? Even if you did deserve it?
I don’t know what’s going on in Iraq, none of us do. Our government doesn’t either and they don’t care. They are using strong-arm, ganster like tatics to get what they want without care to the consequenses that you and I will have to suffer.
Bush and his cronies weren’t hurt or killed in 911, we were. Average citizens are the only ones that ever bare the brutality that governments inflict.
I’m sick of it! I’m tired of being shit on, I’m tired of paying for others to get shit on. I’m tired of getting my pockets picked by government, not to help those in need, but to fill the coffers of the super-rich. My needs and health and safety be Damned. I’m angry that every environmental, labor, and civil rights gains made in the last 100 years and being ripped to shreds in one swoop.
I’m saying it’s enough. We need new policies, better thought to consequenses. We need a new government. I’m tired of being so blantantly lied to. I’m tired of the arrogance. I’m tired of being told one story and have it changed to another. I’m tired of my intelligence being insulted.
Adam is not whining. He is stating, out loud, what so many of us feel.
And I’m not going to give up, give in. I’m tenacious as hell and when I encounter words that you just stated, it makes me even more determined.
And thank you Adam for saying what you say, and for letting me use your comments box as my soapbox ;-p
Thanks, Tuesday. We need to stick together and hold on to that passion.
It matters because it impacts us all. It matters because the truth matters. It should matter to you, Mosey, that you can’t trust anything your government tells you. It matters because there are so many more important things to spend money on instead of countries who are NOT imminent threats. Education. Health care. Infrastructure. Renewable energy research. Balancing the budget again. Putting people to work even. It matters because attacking Iraq endangered the US. Saddam may be out of power, but legions of new enemies have been inspired to hate America and be willing to die attacking it. The place for America internationally is a strong contributor to the betterment of humanity, a country with a strong defense that is committed to doing good works not starting wars. It matters because a constant state of fear and war and canceling of civil rights is tearing this country apart, not making it stronger.
The strongest argument against the “it’s a moot point, Saddam’s gone, so what if Bush lied, stop your liberal whining” argument (at least for me) is this: As voters, we have a role to play. It is our _duty_ to pay attention to whether or not the president showed good judgement in launching the war, and evaluating the truth or falsehood of the justifications he gave for going in is an important part of that. An open debate about the issues is the only we have to decide that question.
Those who claim that it “doesn’t matter” if the President lied when he said he “knew” Saddam had WMDs are engaging in behavior that is profoundly unpatriotic and anti-American. They are directly undermining the system of democracy that, in other circumstances, they would be the first to trumpet as one of the key ways in which the US is superior to other countries (say, the Saddam-era Iraq).
This observation is nothing new, of course, but I think it’s important to make it, as long as people like Mosey are willing to attack their own country by trying to silence debate. And there always will be people like Mosey. The people who founded this country knew that, and did their best to create a system that would give people who valued liberty a chance to defeat them before things got so bad that an armed revolution was the only alternative.
Think of the nation as a jumbo jet on which we’re all flying. The founders, and those who have sacrificed to protect our country since then, made sure we would have access to the cockpit controls. But they couldn’t guarantee that vicious thugs wouldn’t sneak onto the plane and take over. It’s up to us to respond to that.
I believe there is something in our national character that leads us to make that response, even when the odds are against us, even when it is risky, even when we may end up paying a steep personal price. At least, I believe it is a demonstrated fact that some Americans have been willing to do so in the past.
I’d like to be counted among those patriotic Americans, and I encourage you to do the same. Go out there and register, and vote, and figure out how to get your friends and family to do the same. Talk about what you see going on, argue against those you disagree with, sure, but also listen to what they have to say, and don’t be so rigid in your opinions that a clever liar can manipulate you into making unwise choices.
One last observation: More than once recently I’ve posted dissenting views on a pro-war blog, and had those views deleted by the blog’s author. Adam hasn’t done that here. He was willing to let Mosey’s comment stand or fall on its own merits. That’s cool. Adam J. Blust: patriotic American.
John